OOC Hunter-Net List FAQ
First - Welcome to the Official Hunter List. We're glad you're here. The FAQ is intended to answer common questions, and prevent common missteps, that new players might have, or fall into. Read it. Know it. Even though the FAQ only presents guidelines, is designed to help keep everyone's lives more pleasant. These aren't rules - just what most people on the List seem to believe. Only disregard the FAQ's guidelines if you are prepared to accept the consequences.
This FAQ is strictly "Of the List, For the List, and By the List".
The FAQ is posted to the list twice a month. The most recent edition is available at :
[ http://patriot.net/~glurker/Hunters/resource/oocfaq.txt ] or [ http://patriot.net/~jmeehan/Hunters/resource/oocfaq.html ]
This is described in the Monthly Help File, and the confirmation message you received when you joined the list. Shame on you for not reading them. However, you can unsubscribe by doing the following :
Send a message to requests@list.white-wolf.com an e-mail message the the subject "unsubscribe hunter.list". Body text should be left blank. Do not misspell the subject, nor include the quotation marks. Or if you're reading the HTML version, click on the HTML link below.
You can find a copy on the Mailing List Home Page. It is also reproduced below.
This is an unmoderated mailing list for playing Imbued Hunter characters in White Wolf's World of Darkness.
Let's break that down, shall we?
White Wolf's World of Darkness - this means we're not interested in Trinity, Abberrant, Ars Magica, or any of the many other White Wolf game lines. It also means we're not interested in 3rd Edition D&D, Call of Cthulu, Unknown Armies, or anything else. Just White Wolf's World of Darkness setting.
Playing Characters - this isn't a discussion list; you won't see, and we don't want to see, rules discussions, game reviews, or discussions about the underlying philosophy of the game. What you will see, and what we want to see, are people posting stories and interacting In Character. For the others, there are a number of other resources available - the White Wolf forums are a good place to start.
Imbued Hunter - most specifically, we're playing characters developed using the rules from White Wolf's Hunter : The Reckoning. Not Vampire, or Werewolf, or Mage. Hunter. If you can't, or won't, base your character within the scope of Hunter : The Reckoning, you won't be welcomed, nor we will think you creative and original. Many have done the same before you, and most are not the kind of players that bring warm fuzzy feelings to our minds.
Unmoderated - this means we don't have an adult watching us play. And just like in other situations, that means that we're supposed to be mature and responsible, that we should play nice, and be considerate of others. And while we can't swat your behind when you misbehave, we do have other ways of showing our displeasure. The polite among us will shun and ignore you. The others will do worse. Most particularly, do NOT think that because this List is unmoderated that you may abuse and harass the other players Out-of-Character and off-list. If we find out about it, we _will_ take action. Such behavior is _NOT_ tolerated here.
Mailing List - that means this is not Chat (Web or IRC), it's not an IM system. This is e-mail. Don't expect immediate results from a message. Don't include attachments - many subscribers won't see them. Don't use HTML (or any other kind of special formatting) many e-mail programs (including the digest and archives of this List) don't understand it, and again many subscribers won't see it.
We understand that new members of the List may have questions, and may make mistakes. That's fine. But we encourage you to read the List's FAQ and ask questions of the other posters on the List before you start. It will save you trouble.
GAME ON!
The letter 'x' in this section is used to mark information from the last edition of the FAQ posted to the List. This provides a way to keep track of changes in between postings.
| New Sections |
1.8
3.28 |
|---|---|
| Changed Sections |
0.6 - removed
0.7 - renumbered 3.1 - updated to reflect H:Spellbound 3.24 - updated 4.x - removed |
You should send any clarifications, comments, or complaints about the FAQ to the FAQ maintainer.
If you have a suggestion for a new section, a subject that the FAQ doesn't currently cover, post the proposed section, both question and answer, to the List for public discussion. If you're viewing this in HTML, you can use the following link :
Check out "Dear Emily Postnews" available at [http://www.clari.net/brad/emily.html], for a general (and satirical) look at Net-Etiquette. It is much more in depth than this FAQ can be. While most of "Dear Emily" relates to Usenet posting, it is still generally applicable to all Net writing.
While there is no magic formula that guarantees that your post will be read, posts that are clear, concise, and easy-to-read without errors in grammar, spelling, or punctuation will do most of the work.
See "Hints on writing style for Usenet posts", available at [http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/writing-style/part1] for a more in-depth treatment.
The "signature" is that little two or three line coda you see at the end of most messages. Most e-mail programs have ways of automatically including a "signature". Signatures should typically look something like this :
--- MyCharactersName BriefOptionalTag
Where the optional tag might include a blank line or two. It should be 4 lines or less, and should never include ASCII art. Choose your tag well, you'll be living with it for a while.
A flame is a highly insulting or combative post. It typically includes attacks against the list or author, and usually profanity as well. Grammar and spelling errors are common, as is "shouting" (writing in all caps). A well-written flame is considered something of an oxymoron.
A good rule of thumb : if your signature is going to be longer than your reply (minus any quoted text), don't bother. Also, just agreeing with a message isn't enough - applause should be sent to the author in private.
In general, only post to the List when you want or need the entire List to read your reply, keep the quoted text to a minimum, and do not reply to the digest, this faq, or the monthly help file.
Also, when replying, be sure to include only the revelant text; if your reply contains more than a level or two of quoted text, you probably need to trim it.
If you mean the ones that appear in the subject line, they're intended to help people set up filters. Possible ones you'll see :
The "Forbidden Subjects" are those topics of conversation that seem to invariably lead to flame wars. They are also sometimes called "religious" subjects. Typically, a forbidden subject will have adherents with extremely strong beliefs, none of whom can be "converted" to a different view. Obviously, real world religion and politics fall into this category. Depending on the social context, so can Operating System preferences, Browser preferences, etc.
Forbidden subjects should be avoided, if possible, or in private, if not; in any case, this List isn't the best forum for discussing them.
And be warned : in general, net cultures are very intolerant of intolerance.
The List Constable is the fan-appointed arbiter of the Rules of the List. It is not an official position, though the Constable's word carries quite a bit of weight with the Official White Wolf Net Reps. Generally, the List Constable exists mainly to keep every on track by providing reminders about what the List Charter and the agreed-on rules are. Usually the reminders are gentle. Some times they are quite pointed.
The List Constable is an anonymous position, with each Constable appointing their immediate successor. Sometimes, Constable is even a shared position, though this is rare. Generally, the Constable is a respected poster. So be aware when complaining about the Constable, they're usually someone you've also praised.
The List Constable is an anonymous position simply because it's generally a thankless job, and the number one interaction is always with complaints. Thus, it allows the person who is filling the position to maintain a balance of "This is the Constable, this is me."
| private | send a direct e-mail to a person, instead of to the list. |
|---|---|
| lurk | to subscribe and read without posting |
| lurker | someone who reads the list without posting to it |
| OTOH | On The Other Hand |
| BTW | By The Way |
| ASAP | As Soon As Possible |
| AKA | Also Known As |
| WRT | With Regards To |
| IOW | In Other Words |
| LOL | Lots Of Love/Laughs; Laughing Out Loud |
| ROTF | Rolling On The Floor |
| ROTFLMAO | Rolling On The Floor Laughing My A** Off |
| IMO | In My Opinion |
| IMHO | In My Humble/Honest Opinion |
| IRL | In Real Life |
| RL | Real Life |
| AFAIK | As Far As I Know |
| TIA | Thanks In Advance |
| YMMV | Your Milage May Vary |
| PR | Private Reply, used synomously with "private" |
| FAQ | Frequently Asked Question(s) |
| hunter | someone who hunts the supernatural monsters threatening humanity. Note that this is not equivalent to Hunter and Imbued. |
|---|---|
| monster | the enemy. They threaten humanity. |
| supe | a supernatural monster. |
| vamp | vampire |
| rot | zombie |
| fang | vampire |
| weres | were-wolves |
| fae | faeries, the kind from european mythology. |
| warlock | mages |
| ghoul | vampire servant who has supernatural powers |
| bruises | ghoul |
| Hunt | the Hunt to bring to justice/kill the supernatural monsters threatening humanity. |
| Hunter | someone who has been granted special powers/edges by a group of beings called the Messengers/Heralds/Voices so they can Hunt. |
| List | hunter.list@hunter-net.org |
| Imbued | see Hunter. |
| V2 | hunter-net-v2@egroups.com |
| MDG | Most Dangerous Game. The Hunt. |
| twink | what you don't want to be on this list; typically combines bad-roleplaying and rules abuse |
|---|---|
| power-gamer | also known as min-maxer. Someone who plays extremely (excessively?) high-powered characters. |
| munchkin | see twink. |
| retcon | RETroactive CONtinuity. Having to change something you've said/written because another (conflicting) source has precedence. Something to avoid. |
| Vanilla Hunter | Using only the rules published by WhiteWolf in the official supplements, without using any optional rules. |
| Pure Vanilla Hunter | Using only the rules published by WhiteWolf in Hunter : The Reckoning core rules. |
| OOC | Out Of Character |
| IC | In Character |
| TT | Tabletop |
| AV | Anti-Vanilla |
| WW | White Wolf |
| WoD | World of Darkness |
| HtR | Hunter : The Reckoning |
| VtM | Vampire : The Masquerade |
| MtA | Mage : The Ascension |
| WtA | Werewolf : The Apocalypse |
| WtO | Wraith : The Oblivion |
| HbA | Hunter-book : Avengers |
| HbD | Hunter-book : Defenders |
| HtR-SC | Hunter : The Reckoning Storyteller's Companion |
| HSC | Hunter : The Reckoning Storyteller's Companion |
| HtR-SG | Hunter : The Reckoning Survival Guide |
| HSG | Hunter : The Reckoning Survival Guide |
| tWD | The Walking Dead |
| EbWD | Enemy-book : The Walking Dead (same as tWD) |
| HbI | Hunter-book : Innocent |
| HbJ | Hunter-book : Judge |
| HA | Hunter Apocrypha |
| HbM | Hunter-book : Martyr |
Yes. It is extremely difficult for someone other than the Imbued to find, and it is directly protected by the Messengers themselves.
A reasonable assumption is that the list, in addition to being protected by mundane hacker-techniques, is also being guarded by Imbued who are using Hide, Alarm, and Lock (from HtR and HbD), so that it is extremely difficult to find. The general consensus on the list is that only supernatural hackers (Virtual Adepts, Glass Walkers, etc.) would be able to find it on their own, and even they find it difficult to penetrate. The rest wouldn't have either the skills, or the desire to find Hunter-Net in the first place.
tWD demonstrates the List's evolving security. While a monster is able to stumble across the List in the HtR, six months later, only two monsters are on the List, and there is every indication that the Messengers _let_ them on. With the implication that without the Messengers' tacit approval Ichmail and Carpenter wouldn't have even gotten that far. (See tWD, pg 84 for more.)
In Hunter: Spellbound, the List is briefly penetrated by a skilled hacker mage, who is very quickly and violently ejected from the List. The List's protections continue to evolve in both complexity and difficulty.
That being said, it is still foolish to assume safety. Do not reveal details on the list that don't need to be made public - there is a reason all the characters are assigned handles.
Your first post (or very close to it) should describe your imbuing, tell how your character found the List, and give your handle. Anon52 is the generic handle that everyone gets when they log in, so you should choose another one for yourself. (See 3.18 for more info)
Also, wait at least a week (or a FAQ posting) before you delurk - you are much less likely to stumble that way. I would also suggest that you start your character near another, established Hunter's territory. Or alternatively, you can contact an "older" hunter and see if they're willing to help sponsor you. Ask politely.
Also, if you are new to the list, you should probably play a newly imbued Hunter. It will avoid most of the pitfalls you might fall into. Another good suggestion, if you want to play a slightly more experienced hunter, is to play one that has as much experience Hunting, as you do lurking on the list. If you do play a more experienced Hunter, know your stuff.
Short answer : No.
Medium answer : No, not as your primary character - most especially not as your first character.
Long answer : It is not a recommended course for anyone. If you really want to play a monster, the recommended course is to play it as an off-list NPC (who doesn't post directly), especially until you know the issues involved. For more details see section 3.26.
Note that a monster that is willing to betray its own kind (for whatever reason) and help Hunters generally receives a better reception. The monster characters are also usually held to a higher role-playing standard than Hunter characters as well.
In the end, though, any monster character (especially antagonistic ones) have a limited lifetime on the list. Typically because one or more of the IC hunters will arrange to hunt the Monster successfully.
Private the people involved. They may allow you to join, they may not. It depends on what they need, and how far advanced their storyline is. But you lose nothing by asking, and it's a good way to introduce yourself to the list.
Once you've joined a storyline, participate.
If you don't know who they are, inquire as to who/what their character is, and then determine how (or if) the storyline can accommodate them. Then send a reply back, either a polite refusal, or a polite acceptance. But don't ignore the entreaties.
You can, but it is probably not a good idea. Every GM has a different opinion on what is acceptable, and what is not, what is too powerful and what is too weak, and which rules to use and which to not. And that causes friction.
Also, if you play a character from an off-line campaign, the List has no idea what has been happening, unless you post gaming summaries of your campaign. So all those neat little rewards you receive will also cause friction.
And of course, there is always the problem of keeping your character synchronized in both places.
Medium answer : Vanilla Hunter. For _extremely_ advanced OOC discussions on subtle rules points, the other WoD rules might be used. But the List canon is strictly Vanilla Hunter. No WoD novels, or game supplements from other lines, allowed. The one semi-requirement that the list has is that you know the rules in the HtR main rulebook.
This may seem a little strict, but it's intended to give the list a solid common ground. As mentioned above, every player, every GM, has different ideas of accpetable power-levels, of game balance. Rather than argue, and re-argue, over what's acceptable, the List compromised on Vanilla Hunter.
Advanced caveats : Vanilla Hunter isn't what you (as a player) _can_ know, just what you _should_ know. Obviously, if you've been playing one of the other WoD lines for years, you're going to know (and be able to use) a lot more in-depth information than is described in the Vanilla Hunter canon. The real rule here is "Don't use what you don't know."
The List consensus is that the other sites and lists should only be used as OOC resources, with the exception of the web-sites found off www.hunter-net.org.
The HtR books list other websites and pages dangling off the main page. None of these exist in RL. The websites are safe, as they are the IC portions of the Vanilla Hunter rulebooks. The mailing lists are probably not safe, as the rulebooks make it clear that they were invitation-only. All other Hunter : The Reckoning fan websites should be ignored IC.
No. You cannot play an Imbued Kinfolk. You may play a kinfolk hunter (i.e. a non-Imbued monster hunter), however. See 3.10 for why.
No. No supernatural creature, person with supernatural ties, or person with any inkling of magical/psychic abilites may become Imbued. They may become hunters, but not Hunters.
From HtR-SC, pg. 8 : "The Imbued are antithetical to all supernatural powers. ... They can have no ties to ghost, zombies, vampire, werewolves, wizards, or goblins. People with the capabilities of any of those creatures are never imbued. People with blood ties or mystical connections to those creatures ... are never imbued. People with any inkling of mystical potential are never imbued. Hunters are chosen strictly from the mundane human masses."
More specifically, this rule forbids changing-breed kinfolk, ghouls, fae kinfolk, enchanted humans, mortals with numina, and mortals who could become Awakened Mages. A hunter may still possess familial ties to a vampire, zombie, ghost or mage, although they may not be any of those themselves.
Short answer : No.
Medium answer : You shouldn't use custom rules (no 0-1-2-3-4 cost for edges, as an example), at all. Custom creeds and edges _might_ be acceptable, but run them by the list first.
Long answer : The List has a delicate compromise with the Vanilla Hunter ruleset. Deviations from that are probably best kept to a minimum, mainly for your own sanity's sake. The more you deviate from the baseline of Vanilla Hunter, the more risk you assume, and the likelier you are to pushing the "twink" envelope.
New edges are the least disruptive, and therefor the least risky, because they usually only affect one character. But rules changes are very disruptive. Because they affect all the characters, they are very risky. This isn't to say you can't use custom creeds, edges, or rules. But it's best to judge the reaction before you introduce them in a plot post.
As a newly imbued hunter, you must realize that you know nothing about monsters. The only resources you can have to learn about these abominations are a) books and folklore, b) the movies, and c) experience. The first two will often provide erroneous information, and the last tends to be costly. So, you will not know the truth about Caine, vampiric generations, werewolf tribal divisions, mage metaphysics, or anything of the sort. What you may have is a collection of folklore that may or may not be true.
A very experienced character (a 6-month to year-old Hunter) would proably know most of the IC descriptions printed in HtR chapter 9. Hunters don't generally live much longer than that once they start hunting, so consider that an upper bound. Younger hunters (3-6 months) will probably know one or two of the IC descriptions printed in HtR chapter 9.
In addition, an experienced Hunter will probably also be aware of the major divisions within a supernatural society, but would probably know only the group names, and inaccurately. They would not know the details of the society's workings and culture, and would almost definitely overgeneralize based on too-limited experience.
Feel free at any time to formulate reasonable, but wrong, misinformation and conclusions, and stick with them as long as your character would. A few characters on the List, for instance, are _convinced_ that the imbuings happen in response to "psychic" pollution, which is a reasonable IC conclusion.
"Twinking" will generate hostile responses, so it's best to avoid it. These hostile responses will range from "twink alarms" (mild), to "twink guns"(2nd Warning), to pressing the "Ignore Button"(final warning). Particularly egregious examples will often generate flame wars. Repeated offenses by a single poster will often cause him to be ignored by the entire List, a "shunning".
Generally, the List will sound the twink alarm if :
Somehow, that phrase always seems to precede something "off." See above, "Am I twinking?"
No. It's just a game. A good game published by White Wolf, but still just a game. If you truly believe you are experiencing the situations described on the List, seek professional help. Soon.
Yes. The List is extremely bad about giving feedback (especially positive), so there will be many times when you feel under-, or un-, appreciated. But there are many people who read every post. BTW, if you feel someone's doing a good job, don't be shy about privating a compliment to them.
Short answer : No.
Long answer : No. All of the characters in the White Wolf HtR series should be considered off-limits. For starters, since White Wolf may change what happens to the published characters, any action/involvement your PCs and NPCs have with them is likely to be retcon'd away. And that might include a vital plot point for your posts. Also, since they are published by WhiteWolf, actively involving them in your stories is essentially playing another person's character without their permission.
You can find a roll-call of these hunters at [ http://patriot.net/~glurker/Hunters/additional/rollcall_posters.html ] and [ http://patriot.net/~glurker/Hunters/additional/rollcall_nonposters.html ]
The typical handle is composed of two parts - an alias for the List, and a sign-up number.
You can choose anything for an alias, although choosing one that's already in use could be very confusing.
The sign-up number should be over 200 for anybody joining the list. A lower number typically indicates a more experienced Hunter. The highest sign-up number published in WW Official material is 322 (Justme322 is in HbJ), so you should probably take that as a lower bound. If a later supplement conflicts with your handle, don't worry about it - unless, of course, you happen to have the exact same alias and sign-up number.
Now, obviously, there's nobody enforcing these rules OOC (after all, everyone is signed on as Anon52), so you can choose any number you wish. The only real OOC constraint is that you shouldn't choose a number already in use by one of the posters. You also don't need to use the full "official" handle for your signature, but most do.
You may also want to get a free e-mail account using your handle, just to keep the IC illusion complete. And there's a handy number generator on the web site.
Short answer : No.
Medium answer : Yes, if the Hunter is using Conviction or an edge. Otherwise, no.
Long answer : Despite what the other systems may say, here on the List, the general consensus is that the medium answer holds. Period. The general feeling is that Hunters suffer enough of a handicap without being blatantly obvious to any of their enemies who care to look.
This is actually a classic case of staying within the bounds of Vanilla Hunter rules, and not using other systems' rules as well. Something to keep in mind is that every WW product line gives its protagonists an advantage over their opponents. So using more than one rule set typically removes that advantage.
The official HtR caveat about really powerful or old supernaturals being able to pierce the Hunters' camoflage still holds, of course.
Second Sight will reveal that people or objects look 'off', no more. Second Sight cannot distinguish between a mage and a vampire, for instance. It will, however, reveal the presence of non-material beings, like ghosts, possessing spirits, and Fae.
See HtR, pp 132-4 for more details.
The perception edges (Illuminate, Witness, and Discern) each provide more details about the supernatural beings under observation, usually without needing to spend a point of Conviction (like Second Sight does). Spending conviction on Second Sight, however, does offer some other benefits, like protection against domination, or mind-clouding effects, which aren't offered by the perception edges.
Illuminate reveals the auras of any monsters in the area, with each type of monster receiving a different kind of Aura. Once the hunter has learned which auras go with which monster, they will know exactly who is what. It also signals the hunter's presence. See HtR, pg. 149 for more.
Witness is more direct, but not necessarily more accurate; it reveals the monster's most horrific aspect, but that may not always be the obvious. It may also reveal some of the monster's past. It only works on one monster at a time, but doesn't signal its use. See HtR, pg. 150.
Discern is essentially Second Sight on steroids. Monster's can't detect it, and it instantly reveals the monster's exact type with only a moment's observation. It would be possible to gain the same information using Second Sight, but it would take much longer (10+ minutes), much more intense observation (i.e. blatant staring), and extremely careful observation as well (i.e. a large number (3+) of successes on a difficult roll (8+)). See HtR, pg. 160 for more.
The biggest one that seems to be a recurring problem is religion itself. Discussions of Wicca, Neo-paganism, Christianity, Islam, or any other religion aren't really appropriate for this forum. Yes, they are important topics. Yes, you may be curious. But there are better forums for discussing them. (Try talk.religion.* on Usenet.)
Another topic that generates unneccessary heat is the presence of monsters on the List. Yes, IC, there would be very few (if any). OOC, some monster posters are necessary to give the list a foil to work from. Any opinions beyond that should only be discussed in private.
OOC posts of the Forbidden Subjects will probably be squashed with prejudice. IC posts of the Forbidden Subjects will probably generate an OOC reply to the IC post, and should be avoided.
Please note that this is not a prohibition against playing a character with strong religious beliefs, or characters who believe they possess a divine mission. However, any kind of bigotry (religious or otherwise) will probably receive an _extremely_ hostile reaction from the List - both IC and OOC (based on observed past behaviors).
There are a few posters who want to tell the stories of their own tabletop games. While the Hunter forum on White Wolf's web site is a better place for such messages, since the List is ultimately for the players on it, it wasn't proper to say they couldn't. However - as mentioned earlier, TT and AV posts don't share a continuity with the List, so the [TT] and [AV] tags were invented.
A word of caution - labelling a post [TT] or [AV] is not a license to "go twink". [TT] or [AV] posts that step over the "twink" boundary are just as likely to generate a hostile response as any other.
Hopefully, after its resurrection, the List will be stable. Should it go down, wait a day or two, then send a polite e-mail message to the White-Wolf net-rep.
Posting test messages to the List doesn't do anything but fill the queue with spurious test messages that you won't be able to read until the List comes back up. The best response is to save your messages and post them when the List comes back up. Look upon it as an opportunity to tell your stories uninterrupted.
This is a roleplaying List, not an anarchist's List, or a militia List, or even a weapons freak List. While these questions are reasonable IC (and deserve an IC answer), in the OOC realm, such questions and answers could get any of us into a world of trouble. The List's policy on this, or any other dangerous/illegal information that arises IC, is to indicate that the info's been provided, but nothing more. In short, the correct reply to "How do I make mercury-tipped bullets?" is a message like :
Subject : Re : How do I make mercury-tipped bullets? OK, here's what you'll need : [ OOC : Insert list of materials here. ] Then you : [ OOC : Insert instructions here. ] And the beer's for when you get done without killing yourself. Hope it helps. -- HelpfulHunter
Or like :
Subject : Re : How do I make mercury-tipped bullets? I'm PR'ing you the info. Let me know if you've got questions. [OOC : You now know how to make said bullets.] -- Helpful Hunter
Posts that are more informative than either of the two examples given are a Bad Thing.
You should go to another forum - not only is playing a monster against the List Charter, but it now is strictly prohibited by canon (see the HST for more details). Note that this does NOT prohibit you from using a monster character within a [PLOT] post, but against having the monster post directly to the list.
The anonymous account is intended for people to use when they need to speak anonymously about an issue that affects the List, primarily OOC issues. It is subscribed both to the main List, and the archive list (at hunter-net-v2). The account is htr_outsider@yahoo.com. The rest of the access information is accessible by logging into the hunter-net-v2 site, and viewing message number #4326.
There is a chatroom on the List's Web Site: [http://patriot.net/~glurker/resource/chat.html].
You can find message boards at the Official White Wolf site, and at Hunter-Unity.org.
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