Re: Reckoning: an accounting, as for things received or done

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: : Yep. You pretty much hit the nail on the head there. Which is, of course, *why* there's more than one creed. If all the Messengers needed were muckin' big hammers, there'd be nothing but Waywards. Looking at it the other way, the existence of the Waywards implies that sometimes they *need* that muckin' big hammer. : I may be under a mistaken impression, but I thought that the "lost" creeds were the Messengers' "oops, screwed that pooch. Let's take it down a notch..." And I certainly don't think I have implied in any of my stories that violence wasn't an option, only that it was, because of it's irrevocable qualities, not to be considered lightly. : : I don't know, the Judges' "Expose" edge does this, as do certain of the Vision edges, but it's a hard thing to both portray (and change). : Yes, but that isn't exactly what I meant. There isn't a creed which has the powers necessary to counteract the *cultural influences* exerted by the denizens of the WoD which cause humanity to choose what is safe and familiar, even though it ultimately will cause them harm. The edges above are only temporary, and easily dismissed as some other phenomenon, like group hysteria, etc. but that's another rant entirely. : : Huh. Reckoning, as in "Day of...", has always implied an almost vengeful judgement to me, I don't know why. I'll think on it, but acknowledge the bias. : As I should acknowledge mine. "Reckoning Day" is an actual name for an event in agricultural communities, and are literal accountings, after harvests, along the lines of: "Joe used his tractor to plow Hank's fields, which brought in XXXX bushels of corn, and fetched $XXXX at market, so fair recompense for the use of the tractor, minus the repairs made by Joe on the plowblades, would be $XXX." Very little vengeance involved, unless you aren't pulling your own weight. Then it gets ugly. (Although it's far uglier trying to figure out what line in the income tax form that sort of transaction goes into, and you do have to figure those things in.) : : As for your examples, I'm not sure they're both of equal weight; recidivism would be a major issue for the first, something that the second prevents. OTOH, the potential long-term gain from the first, is much higher than the second. It's all an estimate of how much the long-term benefit is worth the short-term risk. : Now this is precisely the problem I have with the mechanics of the game itself. The Zeal creeds are, by default, always in the right, and this is *my* definition of powergaming. If there was a genuine balance within the game, I'd be more interested in playing Zeal, not that I haven't done my share of those. There is very little in the way of encouragement for those who would prefer something more than a "Short Attention Span Theater" style of play. (And, in my experience, this is also why there are so few Zeal creeds portrayed on list; present company excepted, the people interested in playing those creeds are also disinclined to put in the time and effort involved in their portrayal when they can turn to a video game and get a bigger bang for their time.) : : Yes, indeed. On the other hand, we *never* see the complete quote (that I recall), and "meek" isn't a very good descriptor of Waywards and Avengers. Also, Witness presents it almost as a command, more than a prediction. : But this is a slyness that I find offensive. Unfortunately for the WoD, even though fictitious, it doesn't exist in a vacuum. And the word "inherit" is certainly not in and of itself a commandment to incur violence, unless, of course, you find yourself involved in something that would appear on Court TV. : : : Again, action is always violence? : : No, you're quite right, it isn't. Of course, neither HbR nor HbI's back cover material presents a "Call To Action" phrase. : But they don't say anything about armchairs, either, hehe. And I think you are also granting a level of passiveness in the role of Redeemer which I simply don't see; listening to the outpourings of a human heart is hard work, and takes a good deal of mental and emotional strength maintenance to do without getting yourself pulled under, so to speak. I can't see such work (and it is work) being anything but far more difficult and dangerous with a supernatural being. : : OK, I can see how Redeemers are (or could be) nasty. But Innocents? : Let's not overlook Martyrs, with Ravage being (IMO) the ugliest of all possible Mercy edges. But as for your direct question, just from the corebook (HbI being at the Bro's house), granted, Hide only becomes a disconcerting issue to a supernatural if he becomes aware of being spied on, or suddenly notices six potential lunches are now only five. But Illuminate robs them of the single most important (IMO) thing they've got going for them, which is the ability to move about without attracting any attention. I don't know what to make of Radiate, in monster terms, except that it sounds like a set effect from a Spielberg

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